---
title: Mark the level of conversation you want to have
description: "Conversations are more enjoyable, productive, and less confusing
when we can picture what level we’re talking from: galaxy, forest, or the
trees."
contentType: fieldnote
image: /images/illustrations/img-f4f3376ea065-light.png
---
[@layout]: ../../layouts/reading.layout.md
[@page]: ../../design/page.components.md
[@reading]: ../../design/reading.components.md
# Mark the level of conversation you want to have
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Have you ever shared a big picture idea only to have a colleague respond with "what about [tiny detail]?"
Or perhaps the opposite: as you untangle a practical, present issue, the conversation gets hijacked by a long-term plan or idealistic vision.
If so, you'll find this collaboration tip adapted from [Ray Dalio](https://www.facebook.com/raydalio/posts/an-above-the-line-conversation-addresses-the-main-points-and-a-below-the-line-co/571631169925229/) helpful: mark the level of conversation you want to have.
*Are we talking about the big picture?*
*Down in the weeds?*
*(Somewhere in between?)*
It's not apparent but immensely useful to know.
Each level of conversation benefits from different ways of thinking that are easily frustrated by higher-up or lower-down concerns.
**Here's the problem:** no one tends to recognize what level they're speaking from, let alone where others are speaking from. So discussion leaps and dives like a rollercoaster leaving everyone with a bit of mental whiplash.
Taking a tiny extra step – to verbally communicate the intended level of conversation – resolves so many unnecessary conflicts.
---
## Addendum: Conversation Map Legend
**Galaxy-level conversations** explore visions and ideas that may take generations to reach, never be realized, or disrupt everything next year. These kinds of conversations are best kept:
- **Expansive**: seeks out rabbit trails and new connections instead of deciding on The Right Way.
- **Loose**: readily discards even good ideas to chase another that just now came to mind – nothing is “off-topic” and the conversation borders on recklessness.
- **Unstructured**: resists forcing ideas into familiar, comfortable mental frameworks (although it may pick them up and drop them like a single-use test tube or test swab). Instead, these conversations let new ideas evolve into new, improved frameworks.
- **Risky**: resists a feeling of safety or boredom – sure signals that a galaxy conversation is heading in the wrong direction (or, it might be time to take it to a lower level). Galaxy conversations are intoxicating and expansive by definition.
For more, read about [how the future operates in a different kind of time](/essays/the-future-operates-in-a-different-kind-of-time).
**Forest-level conversations** shape vague ideas into viable plans and preliminary designs; they define clear goals and set constraints for upcoming work. Successful conversations in this middle space are:
- **Targeted**: moves ideas into a defined pursuit that can clearly be said to have succeeded or failed, not just been explored.
- **Emergent**: finds patterns in multiple galaxy-level ideas to form a plan that just might actually work.
- **Bridging**: holds a working understanding of the futuristic visions of what could be and the present detailed complexities of the way things are without discounting either side.
- **Judicious**: knows where to put constraints around risks and rabbit trails and where to leave plenty of open space for novel interpretation and craftsmanship in the details.
For more, see [creative work is like fighting a dragon up a hill](/essays/creative-work-is-like-dragging-a-dragon-up-a-hill).
**Tree-level conversations** are all about the present details of the actual work. It's where we build, edit, refine, and repair. Conversations down here are best kept:
- **Precise**: leaves as little ambiguity as possible and only trusts patterns that we can reliably repeat.
- **Structured**: uses to-do lists, timelines, deadlines and other tools that wrangle something new into order.
- **Nurturing**: respects the fragility of the current order of things and softens the impact of new changes accordingly.
- **Tenacious**: patiently presses the work to completion to the very last obscure detail.
For more, see [the past is never done](/essays/the-past-is-never-done).
---
- [The past is never done](/essays/the-past-is-never-done)
- [The future operates in a different kind of time](/essays/the-future-operates-in-a-different-kind-of-time)
- [Creative work is like fighting a dragon up a hill](/essays/creative-work-is-like-dragging-a-dragon-up-a-hill)
- [The rocky downhill slope of creative work](/essays/the-rocky-downhill-slope-of-creative-work)